BF2S Forums Limiting the number one gets to have.

xBlackPantherx wrote:

CommieChipmunk wrote:

3) College isn't the only factor... but what if they want to go to a nice college?  Tough luck I guess.  It's no easy task getting into a med-school with a degree from a state school these days to be honest.  And yes, I know there are other careers outside of medicine...

4) True.  But most private colleges cost upwards of $30,000 a year (plus room and board)

3) There is not really "good and bad" colleges, persay. The best college is one that has what the individual needs/desires. So, therefor, the term "good college" is very very loose.

4) Exactly, you said you have $300,000 worth of scholarships when most really good private colleges even only cost $30,000 (according to you).

I have also been researching colleges a lot recently the last few weeks.

I agree with CC on this point... Depending on what career you plan on going into, there are good colleges and bad colleges to get degrees from. There are colleges (I would rather not get into the naming game) that I know of, where if you get a specific degree, you are basically guaranteed a good job in the field you studied for. Often before you even graduate. Plus $30K a year times just four years is $120K and that often doesn't include room and food. I went to a $30K/year school and that was 10 years ago... I can't imagine what it costs now... But I am in a job with a $100K pay range, so even if I did have student loans, I would be able to take care of them.

But again, this is an education/economic problem, not a population issue.

Turquoise wrote:

He means living vicariously through children...  which actually is a good point...

Close but no.

SenorToenails wrote:

David.P wrote:

Have as many as you want. It wont change the fact you're all scared of dying so you must leave a memorandum of yourself to make the pain easier.

(Especially with a knife in your neck)

What?  Try to make some sense, will ya?

Edit:  Turquoise cleared that up...  Not sure about the knife in your neck part, but whatever.

It means: You are going to die one day, You know that, And you cant prevent that, Because you are not Immortal. So you must leave something of yourself, A memory or more likely a replacement of yourself, So when you die you know you've done good by passing your genes on to another generation, It's been like that since sentient life began to split from it's self and evolve separately, And it will continue till the universe ends. And this is also the curse of existence, To be in eternal pain and cause pain to others to relieve it. Whether the pain is Hunger, Sex, or Other.

Thats why there is no point for anyone to procreate because you will just die and cause more to pain to other living beings who would cause pain to you.

And this is why i feel no need for love, compassion, or any of your so called "Good emotions" To me they dont feel good, Infact they dont feel like anything at all. But... The ones you deem negative and bad, they they feel like something to me! They feel "Pleasant" to put in a way that you would understand. Not as an insult to your intelligence, Just as an explanation to how my mind works, It may not be "Normal" Or "Happy" But i like what it is when working to my benefit. I like that it turns off most of my "useless to me emotions" Such as Happiness and Fear(To an extent) I like that it gives me pleasure from Violence towards myself inflicted by others or by myself to them.

It maybe primal or just an insanity but violence speaks to me more than any other feeling, Something which noone else can feel like i do. But i detest violence when done to those who do not deserve it, I know i am not an eternal judge who sees ,hears, and knows all! But i am smart enough to realize what you are doing is wrong, And if i can i will stop you from bringing more harm to those different or in disagreement with you.

See this is what a life of emotional, mental, psychological, and physical, abuse leads to. Some people kill themselves, Some kill others, And a few very few learn to cope and walk the delicate line between the two. I am not Normal and i know it, Nor ill i ever be normal by the modern definition.
When i say stuff related to suicide and violence most of it is untrue but you can never guess what is and what is'nt, Because they are indistinguishable from each other by a thin line walking on the border of truth and fallacy. Sometimes i dont even know if i am... Being Serious or Not Being Serious... Sometimes i dont even have a concrete personality, Not one that can be molded like Jell-O, Or one that drifts between different states of mental existence, But one that chooses a new personality trait to suit it's self for the time being, Before it starts working against me or i just get bored of it. But one thing always remains about me, Not my physical form, Or my Identity, But my pleasure from violence and acts of violence. Whatever i am i like it and hate it at the same time, Because i can never choose one or the other.


Ya guys i know i'm really really fucked up...


EDIT: See where the knife comes from Toenails?

Last edited by David.P (2008-01-21 21:17:33)

David.P wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

He means living vicariously through children...  which actually is a good point...

Close but no.

SenorToenails wrote:

David.P wrote:

Have as many as you want. It wont change the fact you're all scared of dying so you must leave a memorandum of yourself to make the pain easier.

(Especially with a knife in your neck)

What?  Try to make some sense, will ya?

Edit:  Turquoise cleared that up...  Not sure about the knife in your neck part, but whatever.

It means: You are going to die one day, You know that, And you cant prevent that, Because you are not Immortal. So you must leave something of yourself, A memory or more likely a replacement of yourself, So when you die you know you've done good by passing your genes on to another generation, It's been like that since sentient life began to split from it's self and evolve separately, And it will continue till the universe ends. And this is also the curse of existence, To be in eternal pain and cause pain to others to relieve it. Whether the pain is Hunger, Sex, or Other.

Thats why there is no point for anyone to procreate because you will just die and cause more to pain to other living beings who would cause pain to you.

And this is why i feel no need for love, compassion, or any of your so called "Good emotions" To me they dont feel good, Infact they dont feel like anything at all. But... The ones you deem negative and bad, they they feel like something to me! They feel "Pleasant" to put in a way that you would understand. Not as an insult to your intelligence, Just as an explanation to how my mind works, It may not be "Normal" Or "Happy" But i like what it is when working to my benefit. I like that it turns off most of my "useless to me emotions" Such as Happiness and Fear(To an extent) I like that it gives me pleasure from Violence towards myself inflicted by others or by myself to them.

It maybe primal or just an insanity but violence speaks to me more than any other feeling, Something which noone else can feel like i do. But i detest violence when done to those who do not deserve it, I know i am not an eternal judge who sees ,hears, and knows all! But i am smart enough to realize what you are doing is wrong, And if i can i will stop you from bringing more harm to those different or in disagreement with you.

See this is what a life of emotional, mental, psychological, and physical, abuse leads to. Some people kill themselves, Some kill others, And a few very few learn to cope and walk the delicate line between the two. I am not Normal and i know it, Nor ill i ever be normal by the modern definition.
When i say stuff related to suicide and violence most of it is untrue but you can never guess what is and what is'nt, Because they are indistinguishable from each other by a thin line walking on the border of truth and fallacy. Sometimes i dont even know if i am... Being Serious or Not Being Serious... Sometimes i dont even have a concrete personality, Not one that can be molded like Jell-O, Or one that drifts between different states of mental existence, But one that chooses a new personality trait to suit it's self for the time being, Before it starts working against me or i just get bored of it. But one thing always remains about me, Not my physical form, Or my Identity, But my pleasure from violence and acts of violence. Whatever i am i like it and hate it at the same time, Because i can never choose one or the other.


Ya guys i know i'm really really fucked up...


EDIT: See where the knife comes from Toenails?

I hereby dub thee Joker...   That movie looks so kickass by the way.

Okay.

This is why world government of any sort will not work.

Much of Europe - in fact almost all developed nations (save the US, cos of illegal immigration. That's irony) risks social stagnation in the next few decades 'cos of an aging-shrinking population. If something is not done to boost the birth rate there, there are gonna be real issues with a massively enlarged dependent population (dependent population = the portion of the population dependent on others for their socioeconomic wellbeing. Mostly children and the elderly, those who can't work basically) and Europe could fall to social disrepair.

I honestly have never seen any logic in restrictions. Look at the one-child policy. Yes, population growth has slowed a little bit but the result is you have a staggering gender imbalance (a cultural thing, in many countries - boys prefered over girls. Saying that's ignorant or stupid is ignorant or stupid in itself), and THAT could lead to social problems, especially when you have twenty million unmarried men, and think of all the crime, unemployment and general social issues that causes.

Much better is a back-to-the-basics grassroots system. Look at Kerala, India. The rest of the country has gone the simplistic limit-on-children root. Kerala, however, has implemented a socialised basic healthcare system, and look at the results. Stage 3-4 of the demographic transition, compared to Stage 2 for the rest of the country. No gender imbalance (compared to the rest of the country). Far higher quality healthcare - IMR is about 1 in a 100, and most importantly, a birth rate that is quite low for a developing nation. Sure signs of a working strategy.

As many as they want.

Turquoise wrote:

David.P wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

He means living vicariously through children...  which actually is a good point...

Close but no.

SenorToenails wrote:

What?  Try to make some sense, will ya?

Edit:  Turquoise cleared that up...  Not sure about the knife in your neck part, but whatever.

It means: You are going to die one day, You know that, And you cant prevent that, Because you are not Immortal. So you must leave something of yourself, A memory or more likely a replacement of yourself, So when you die you know you've done good by passing your genes on to another generation, It's been like that since sentient life began to split from it's self and evolve separately, And it will continue till the universe ends. And this is also the curse of existence, To be in eternal pain and cause pain to others to relieve it. Whether the pain is Hunger, Sex, or Other.

Thats why there is no point for anyone to procreate because you will just die and cause more to pain to other living beings who would cause pain to you.

And this is why i feel no need for love, compassion, or any of your so called "Good emotions" To me they dont feel good, Infact they dont feel like anything at all. But... The ones you deem negative and bad, they they feel like something to me! They feel "Pleasant" to put in a way that you would understand. Not as an insult to your intelligence, Just as an explanation to how my mind works, It may not be "Normal" Or "Happy" But i like what it is when working to my benefit. I like that it turns off most of my "useless to me emotions" Such as Happiness and Fear(To an extent) I like that it gives me pleasure from Violence towards myself inflicted by others or by myself to them.

It maybe primal or just an insanity but violence speaks to me more than any other feeling, Something which noone else can feel like i do. But i detest violence when done to those who do not deserve it, I know i am not an eternal judge who sees ,hears, and knows all! But i am smart enough to realize what you are doing is wrong, And if i can i will stop you from bringing more harm to those different or in disagreement with you.

See this is what a life of emotional, mental, psychological, and physical, abuse leads to. Some people kill themselves, Some kill others, And a few very few learn to cope and walk the delicate line between the two. I am not Normal and i know it, Nor ill i ever be normal by the modern definition.
When i say stuff related to suicide and violence most of it is untrue but you can never guess what is and what is'nt, Because they are indistinguishable from each other by a thin line walking on the border of truth and fallacy. Sometimes i dont even know if i am... Being Serious or Not Being Serious... Sometimes i dont even have a concrete personality, Not one that can be molded like Jell-O, Or one that drifts between different states of mental existence, But one that chooses a new personality trait to suit it's self for the time being, Before it starts working against me or i just get bored of it. But one thing always remains about me, Not my physical form, Or my Identity, But my pleasure from violence and acts of violence. Whatever i am i like it and hate it at the same time, Because i can never choose one or the other.


Ya guys i know i'm really really fucked up...


EDIT: See where the knife comes from Toenails?

I hereby dub thee Joker...   That movie looks so kickass by the way.

No man this is really me. I identify myself with the joker now because it is the personality trait i've chosen to adopt. Same with sean connery(Because i liked being sneaky and a bastard to trebek on the temp forums) Same with my "Last motherfucker breathin" title, Because i was a kickass bf2 assault player and i identified myself with that song of his, Because i could take up to 6 enemies at once and live with little or no damage. But one thing always remained my penchant for violence and violent acts. It's been this way for a while now. I guess i'm like very white person out there, Nothing to call my own so i adopt from foreign(to me) objects of existence. I guess i'm no better then the wigger or chav as the brits call them, Nor the weeaboo's i hate so goddamn much.


Anyway back on topic.

SenorToenails wrote:

CommieChipmunk wrote:

Personally I think its selfish to have hordes of kids.  In this day and age we don't need to have 10 kids a couple to maintain the population.

How many people do you know who have 10 kids?  Not many, right?  Most of the projected population growth in the next 100 years is in Asia, and China is already working on its population problem.  India will have to face that reality soon enough.  Western nations are at very little risk of overpopulating themselves any time soon.

Sure, overpopulation is going to be a reality someday.  But not today and not here.

So your brilliant solution is to rather than slowing down population grow, we let it grow and wait for some massive disease/food crisis to kill off billions of people? How nice of you.

I have heard just recently that the ideal number of children per woman for western nations is 2,11. With that amount, we can keep our economies and social systems running, and ensure that we continue to exist as a nation.

unfortunately, the only country that is anywhere close to 2,11 in europe atm is France, with 1,9.
So, from that point of view, we could easily kick it up a notch.

Of course, from an environmental/ ressource point of view, birth rate control does make sense to some extent. But I am afraid this mostly applies to less developped countries, where birth rates are high. Then again, those countries do not use up much of the world's ressources. The developped countries are responsible for that.

I think when it comes to natural ressources and how we use them, saving and efficiency has more potential than birth rate control.

You guys have made a lot of good points, but I still think that we have to start controlling population growth in some way. Maybe not by punishing people for having more than a certain number of kids, which would be cruel. But by somekind of taxing system or something like that.
And regarding the matter of having to many old/very young people who cant work and thus need others to provide for them, that will be a porblem but I don't see how that will be an increased problem if overall population decreases. Yes, we would get a lot of old people that we have to take care of for the next 50 years maybe, but after that it will level out. We have to make sacrifices, economical and social.

The way China is handling their population is probably not the best way, and there are many cultural issues that interfere with the possibility of it working out in a "good way". But there must be other ways in which we could make it work, because we have to. And eventhough we can possibly maintain a population of 20 billion or more it will be very hard and not necessary. Why not put population growth to a halt right now? This will not solve all problems we face but at least make them easier to solve.

I love these topics...   Makes me ponder a scripture which brings it all into focus so nicely:

O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.

On topic, having children is a commandment.  I will have as many as my family sees fit to have and no family should be denied the blessing, right, and privilege it is to have them.  Any human denying the right of children should promptly remove them self from the gene pool.

IRONCHEF wrote:

I love these topics...   Makes me ponder a scripture which brings it all into focus so nicely:

O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.

On topic, having children is a commandment.  I will have as many as my family sees fit to have and no family should be denied the blessing, right, and privilege it is to have them.  Any human denying the right of children should promptly remove them self from the gene pool.

Then maybe when resources run scarce, those who saw fit to have as many children as they wanted (as commanded by God), should also be the first to have the resources alloted to them, reduced.

RAIMIUS wrote:

WHAT THE HELL?

So, what?  Would you just kill anyone extra?  That's real nice!
I got news for you, there is a current population decline in Western nations! So, unless you are suggesting that China and India do this, it is not even applicable.

I don't need the government DICTATING how many people can be in my family.  If I can support 5 kids in a supportive and stable environment, who are you outlaw that?

I DON'T WANT OR NEED A BIG BROTHER, NANNY STATE TO TELL ME HOW TO RAISE A FAMILY!  YOUR SUGGESTION IS INSULTING TO ANYONE WHO TAKES PERSONAL RESPONSIBLITY!

Is it a fact that western nations' population is decreasing? And I never said anything about what to do with the children born who exceed the "allowed amount".

And I am not at all saying that you as parent can not support and raise 5 kids, I am saying that the earth, the world, is having a harder time providing for us humans. And eventhough creating restrictions on how many children one can have may be cruel and possibly unfair, it is a lot better way than having a widespread epidemic or nuclear holocaust deal with decreasing the poulation. Because that will happen sooner or later if we just keep growing and growing.

This is not about having the big bad government restricting us and telling us how to live our lives, this is about us a species taking responsibility for our actions and for the earth and its inhabitants.