kn0ckahh
Member
+98|7180|netherlands, sweet lake city
hi

since most ppl complain and hate this new patch ....
what would you like to change about  patch 1.2    in patch 1.21 ??????

or how would your perfect battlefield look like ....
would it be PPL jumping and going beserk...
or and more slow battlefield where its just who first sees who fisrt kills....

ppl are comlaining because they where used to hopping and C4 exploit...

if it wasnt there from the beginning BF2 would be maybe even better

its just PPL scared for the unknown and not liking to addapt themselves.....
[-CGZ-]BioRaveN
Don't make me toothpick you.
+31|7147|The beautiful hills of Sharqi
I liked the bunny hoppers and dolphin divers, they were so easy to snipe, because they were so predicable.
Kobrakai
Weirdo
+152|7230|England
Fix the bugs, Fix the AA.
$kelet0r
Member
+16|7124
1.21 will only fix the new bugs - i'd imagine DICE are quite happy with the gameplay now and i can't foresee them feeling the need to change things so drastically ever again
Kamikaze17
Over the line!
+70|7191|Mark it zero.
keep the AA really accurate, but when i missile passes something it cant turn back and circle it until it hits the thing. also fix all the bugs. the game play is good how it is now.
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|7163|Kirkland, WA
I know people are getting tired of players complaining about the new patch, so in my defense I'm going to state that I was never one of the whiners that asked for many of the changes that have been introduced by the new patch. However, I do have a few suggestions that I believe would greatly improve gameplay.

1) Explosives: Claymores and AT mines should still be destructable by grenades and detonate on friendlies as they did originally. However, I do think that they needed to be addressed, I just think Dice/EA tried to solve the problem the wrong way. My solution would be that allies can't punish for TK's by AT mines or claymores and they only receive half of the negative points that a player normally receives from a TK.

2) AA: Yeah, I know this issue has been beaten over and over, but I need to mention it because very few people have addressed the real issue. AA should require skill AND be effective. Before, AA didn't require much skill other than knowing when to fire, but it wasn't effective. Now AA requires virtually no skill but is extremely effective. The source of the problem is that Dice is tweaking with tracking or guidance code, when the real issue is the fundamental way AA works in BF2. Dice needs to get rid of seeking AA missiles altogether. Simply make the AA fast straight firing missiles like the stingers that were in the Desert Combat mod for BF 1942. That way, if a player is extremely skilled with knowing how to lead a missile to hit with a jet or helicopter they can still be very effective, but AA would require a degree of skill that not anyone can pickup right away without practice. This is also fair for jet and helicopter pilots because it gives them the opportunity to out wit and out think AA on the ground through their piloting skills rather than worrying that if they don't get a flare off in time that the nearly flawless tracking code is going to spell their demise. Ultimately, with this approach to AA in place it puts the determining factor of AA versus air in the mind and wits of the pilot and the AA soldier on the ground, not in tracking code that is either insufficient or ridiculously efficient. The ability to take down a jet or to stay alive in an air asset should ONLY be determined by the player's skill. It may not be realistic, but it makes the most sense from the perspective of gameplay and the fun factor. BF2 can really learn a lot from Desert Combat's air / AA balance system.

3) Jumping: Personally, I never had much of a problem with bunny hoppers and dolphin divers before, and didn't really practice it much myself, but if everyone is more content now that those abilities are eliminated  than I'm fine with it. There are only a couple exceptions. Knifes and pistols. There is no recoil on a knife and its range is already short enough that it should be allowed to use in the air. Often, the only way to get a knife kill is to jump at someone to dodge their fire and hit them in mide air. Pistols, also are a small enough weapon that they should be permitted to use while jumping, although there should definitely be a loss of accuracy for doing so. Although, you would probably never see someone bunny hopping with a knife in real life as they are attacking someone that is becuase they would have much more subtle and precise movements available to them that would allow them to engage their target effectively. Video games as of present can't replicate all of the capabilities and nuances of the human body that would make a sophisticated knife fight possible, so it only seems reasonable that this shortcoming is compensated by some other engagement tactic such as jumping.

4) Splash damage: This is an issue that has bothered me ever since BF2's release. The splash damage for the AT/AA weapon is far too weak considering that these weapons penetrate armor and destroy tanks, helicopters, and transport vehicles. I don't think that it should be increased too much because it would greatly upset game balance and everyone would likely start playing anti-tank, but it's radius of effect should be expanded ~25% and it's damage against infantry should be increased ~50%. I know on several occasions that I have hit people right at their feet and they walked away with practically no damage at all.  A hit like that should take away at least 75% of the player's health, or possibly kill them. I also think that the attack helicopter primary missiles should have their splash damage area increased slightly, maybe 15-20%. These missiles are powerful enough to destroy armor yet they can't kill a soldier unless them hit them directly. I think now that helicopters are weaker and carry less missiles per volley that pilots would be less willing to use missiles on insignificant targets such as infantry, but if they do, it seems reasonable that a helicopter missile should kill a soldier if it hits within 1 meter of them.

I have a few minor changes I would like to see as well (mostly with small arms power and accuracy), but they are just small gripes that I'd be willing to look past for now. However, the four issues I just covered seem to be significant enough to mention. For the most part I like a lot of the changes that were made in the patch, I just have some minor complaints about the non-destructable explosives and the AA.

I hope to hear other player's suggestions as well.
kn0ckahh
Member
+98|7180|netherlands, sweet lake city
what i would like to fix is: hummers cant fly that far anymore powered by C4 explosives ( if you turn of friendly fire:P)

if they would fly again at least it would be funny...

and the sprint BUG <---- i want it back i cant sprint all day long anymore and everything goes slow

and mayB not a worse AA system but just an good AA with only one rocket
Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|7173|Uhh... erm...
Just fix all the bugs and everyone'll be happy.
ReVmAn
Member
+0|7114|Where politics is not needed
They didn't have to change the AA ... didn't have to change the damage a chopper could take. They only had to add the choice for AT to select a Stinger!
JimKong
Member
+31|7084|Ohio

LG-MindBullets wrote:

1) Explosives: Claymores and AT mines should still be destructable by grenades.
One should also be able to set them off with any mounted weapon and the .50 cal sniper rifle.

Allowing teammates to set them off renders those two kits useless. C4 should be able to be throw like a grenade but not detonated until it attaches to a surface. Assault should have the same amount of smoke bombs as flash bangs. One is not enough.

Last edited by JimKong (2006-02-21 04:13:06)

LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|7163|Kirkland, WA

JimKong wrote:

C4 should be able to be throw like a grenade but not detonated until it attaches to a surface. Assault should have the same amount of smoke bombs as flash bangs. One is not enough.
Good ideas here. I've always thought that assault should have more smoke grenades, just forgot to mention it.
motherdear
Member
+25|7093|Denmark/Minnesota (depends)
i think don't think the at should have more splash damage the at rocket dosn't make a big explosion it make s acontrolled  one if you throw a big fireball at a tank it wouldn't do any damage but if you consentrate it on a specifik location it will be extremely weakened, the anti tank rockets are designet as a two step rocket the first step penetrates the armor the other one super heat the air or whatever it is can't remember exactly and basicly boils the crew members and it also gets all the the tank ammo to explode and the ammo blows up the tank. the aa don't got this ability therefore it should be improved against infantery.
elite
Member
+89|7156|Sheffield, England
perfect bf2...umm...just bring back 1.12, that would be sweet
kiteboarderni
Member
+62|7122
AA is ok i think. but let them chuck C4
General_CoLin_Tassi
Member
+-2|7142|England, UK
My solution for the air power in the next patch.

1. The AA. Needs to be made slightly less effective than it is now plus sort the oil tower bug.
2. Keep the 8 missiles on the attack helicopters.
3. TV range set to 600m to help counter new patch AA. Would be happy though if its kept at its new range of 450m.
4. Set the hit points on the all helicopters at between new patch setting and patch v1.12 settings. The .50 calibre MG's on jeeps etc can take down a helicopter to quickly. Transport helicopters full of troops need more protection.
5. Jets. Keep the current hit point settings as long as the new AA is reduced slightly. Making pilots land for big repairs is good thing, a new challange for some and will help reduce constant flag bombing. The improved AA has reduced carrier rapings, which is a good thing.

IMHO, this is balance.
lavadisk
I am a cat ¦ 3
+369|7272|Denver colorado

kn0ckahh wrote:

hi

since most ppl complain and hate this new patch ....
what would you like to change about  patch 1.2    in patch 1.21 ??????

or how would your perfect battlefield look like ....
would it be PPL jumping and going beserk...
or and more slow battlefield where its just who first sees who fisrt kills....

ppl are comlaining because they where used to hopping and C4 exploit...

if it wasnt there from the beginning BF2 would be maybe even better

its just PPL scared for the unknown and not liking to addapt themselves.....
i agree. i just got used to this patch and i totally was kicking some butt. last night i got 179 points with 71 kills and 34 death and some team points. it was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!

look at my stats to verify
breethon
Member
+0|7092
I want my rockets to actually kill incoming humvees instead of going right through them.  It happened twice in one game.   I shoot a rocket and it went right through the windshield both times......which, of course, allowed them to run me over.

Last edited by breethon (2006-02-21 09:52:19)

jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|7122
The AAA is too strong now , bump it down a bit so you can fly for more then 30 seconds - choppers are useless now too .

The Anti Tank unit should be able to kill a tank in 3 shots . I shot a damn tank with all 4 , didn't kille the tank - gay as hell .

M95 should kill with one shot to the body . It's a friggin .50 cal bullet . If you have been sniping long enought to unlock it it should be better , more powerful weapon then what you origionaly started out with . Being able to shoot through glass but not a human body it stupid , lame , and not even a worthy upgrade . You should be able to kill privates with one shot regaurdless of where you hit them . I don't care if you shoot them in the leg , they should die for a .50 cal bullet to your leg will blow your leg off and you will bleed to death within minutes anyhow .

Bunny hooping should stay in . It's been in every FPS to date so WTF is all the fuss about . If you can kill someone bunny hopping and call them cheap for doing it all I can say is - your not a very good shot then . Play "go fish" with your sister .

as far as the smoke grenades are concerned I think there should be more then one . But then again after playing this game since it came out I can still count on one hand how many times I've seen smoke used .
Assault class should have regular grenades as well - WTF ? Why don't the assault class have regular grenades ?

The 50.cal on the jeep should be able to kill a chopper if all the bullets hit the chopper before it overheats . Too many times have I hit the chopper with all 75 rounds ( just a guess ) and the chopper is smoking and I'm about to kill it and the gun overheats , the chopper turns and kills me . I'm sorry but if you shoot a chopper , ANY chopper in the world with 75 .50 cal bullets the chopper will fail , crash to the ground killing everyone aboard - it's simple as that . Also it would take roughly 700 rounds before an actual .50 would over heat to the point of barrle whiping and over heating - yeah I know it's just a game blah blah blah .

The linebackers bullets need to be bumped up a bit in conjuction with the .50 on jeeps . Don't care if it's a "game".  200 rounds of 20.mm guns , or what ever it is , lighting up a chopper and the chopper don't go boom is just unrealistic .

Make Karkand with an uncappable flag on the 32 player size map to end all the bitching and griping .

Make the reloading times for all sniper rifle quicker .Nothing pisses me off more then slow reloads . This game is trying emulate a sniper who has gone through a sniper school and is part of an eliete fighting force . Nothing kills this impression then slow moving hands manipulating a rifle . At the very least if you make Sgt Major or something just speed the animation up .
topal63
. . .
+533|7160

LG-MindBullets wrote:

4) Splash damage: This is an issue that has bothered me ever since BF2's release. The splash damage for the AT/AA weapon is far too weak considering that these weapons penetrate armor and destroy tanks, helicopters, and transport vehicles. I don't think that it should be increased too much because it would greatly upset game balance and everyone would likely start playing anti-tank, but it's radius of effect should be expanded ~25% and it's damage against infantry should be increased ~50%. I know on several occasions that I have hit people right at their feet and they walked away with practically no damage at all.  A hit like that should take away at least 75% of the player's health, or possibly kill them. I also think that the attack helicopter primary missiles should have their splash damage area increased slightly, maybe 15-20%. These missiles are powerful enough to destroy armor yet they can't kill a soldier unless them hit them directly. I think now that helicopters are weaker and carry less missiles per volley that pilots would be less willing to use missiles on insignificant targets such as infantry, but if they do, it seems reasonable that a helicopter missile should kill a soldier if it hits within 1 meter of them.
No doubt!

It makes ZERO-sense that you have to have a direct hit on a single infantry target with a CHOPPER MISSLE! It took me a FULL 14 missles one time to take out an infantry unit going for a FLAG (had no gunner). I looked at the ground - one dead unit in the middel of 14 (tightly-packed) black explosion-splashes littering the landscape - utterly ridiculous (IMO).

As far as fixing goes I don't consider TWEAKING equates to a fix - and like you I never complained for these game-play tweaks.

(4) I dont mind the AA as it is - it is not that hard to take out; you simply need to learn the map and consider it one of your primary targets. But I like the your idea better - than an AA that works well. Having to guide an AA missle (like the TV missle on a chopper) would be more fun (I don't now about the skill factor - but it would be fun for sure to chase a plane with you being the missle's guide).

Perfecting the next patch (if BF2 is going to be tweaked again - then!):
1.) Increase rocket splash damage (YES I AGREE!).

2.)  Fix the assault class - it sucks now - not because its harder to kill people with a grenade launcher,
it really isn't - but the animations and sounds don't match up right: weird smoke animations, missing explosions, smoke trails through people, nades bouncing of vehicles (its so called primary target, by EA/DICE).  It is not fun - to play this glitchy-feeling class now.

3.) Give the AT-kit grenades; every other kit has them (in some form); there is no reason they should not have 4 small itty-bitty grenades like every other kit has. It is bad enough the rifles sort of suck in this class.

4.) See above - about AA.

5.) Bug fixes - fix EM instead of introducing more.

6.) Fix the SF hummer mounted TOW crashes-server bug (for sure!).

7.) The multiplay interface - if anything needs (has needed serious) improvement this does!

8.) Fix the standing up from prone delay - it feels and looks awkward.

9.) Make it so you can shoot when you jump again - it was fun to kill and get killed in this manner. The prone in mid-air is the only thing that should have been rendered not possible - if you press Z(prone) when you jump nothing happens with your accuracy until you hit the ground. Also better suggestions about linking jumping to stamina have been suggested before in other threads. It should be a game-ability like your sprint linked to your stamina - less stamina (bars) the lower the height of the jump (red-bars=recharging; getting wind=no jumping at this moment). Also jumping should decrease the accuracy of your weapon.

10.) FIX the AT problem made more frequent in this patch; when rockets go through vehicles - this just sucks.

11.) Make more rag-doll death animations and death sounds - this is one of the HIGHLIGHTS of BF2 and made this game so much fun in the first place (prior to any patching). More of this fun funny shit would be welcome IMO.

12.) I dont think C4 guys should be able to throw C4 like a frisbie; but I do think they represent sepcial-ops = special ability. When and if they get close enough to a tank they should be able to sprint while in a crouched position and move in under the armors ability to lower its aspect-angle on its guns. If they get close enough to you - they should be very difficult to hit  = you deserve to get C4-ed if they get that close to you.

13.) Picking up explosives - this was promised - but not delivered - please EA/DICE make it so. For sneaky C4 guys this is deserved since the frisbie toss has been eliminated.

14.) Leave the mines, claymores as patched - don't change them. YES its annoying sometimes but it should be. If a few enemy enigneers block your main base exit point with mines (you deserve it) - and your only option is a sacrifice (a jeep; and you) so the tanks can get out - its a simple solution and only one ticket (or game-death). Don't change this it makes an engineer and a sniper actually a usefull (team-play; team-round) class now.

15.) More kits choices are always welcome.

16.) More GOOD-LOOKING good playing maps would be welcome. Only WAKE has been added to regular BF2.

17.) Actual preformance gains would be welcome - as opposed to poorly coded tweaking that seems to cause lower frame rates, disconnects and possible lag.

18.) This one not sure about? If it is actually true or not (PING!). I am not sure, but have noticed, that I get killed more often by players with a lower PING than me. Are thier actions being registered on the server before mine? I think so. I am not sure what could be done to level this, make it more fair, though? Have you ever noticed when you shoot at someone (dead center - balls on!) yet no hits register? I think I am shooting slightly into the past, where he/the other player used to be.  A timing mechanism could be introduced to the game logic (to make the animations match up WYSIWYG) - but I would be against it IF it proved to interfere with game-play by increasing lag or lower frame rates; or the like.

Last edited by topal63 (2006-02-21 10:47:52)

Heat
Member
+0|7086|Alabama

LG-MindBullets wrote:

1) Explosives: Claymores and AT mines should still be destructable by grenades and detonate on friendlies as they did originally. However, I do think that they needed to be addressed, I just think Dice/EA tried to solve the problem the wrong way. My solution would be that allies can't punish for TK's by AT mines or claymores and they only receive half of the negative points that a player normally receives from a TK.
I'd like to see the claymores and at mines give vehicle/teammates 45% or so damage. Still enough incentive to stay away from them but can still trip them, and remove the ability to punish.

The way it is now, when I'm alone taking a flag, this first thing I do is mine the vehicles or set up claymores(if equipped).

Other thinks I'd like to see...

Packable shoulder fired Stingers.

Give the Anti Tank class grenades...take them away from snipers.
kiteboarderni
Member
+62|7122
GRENADES FOR ANTI TNAK FFS!! pls!! Somebody listen!
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|7163|Kirkland, WA

breethon wrote:

I want my rockets to actually kill incoming humvees instead of going right through them.  It happened twice in one game.   I shoot a rocket and it went right through the windshield both times......which, of course, allowed them to run me over.
This has been a known bug for some time. It seems to be a collision mesh error of some sort. I'm surprised they haven't fixed it yet.
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|7163|Kirkland, WA

Heat wrote:

Other thinks I'd like to see...

Packable shoulder fired Stingers.

Give the Anti Tank class grenades...take them away from snipers.
Yes, packable shoulder fired stingers I think is the best way to solve the AA problem. This has been mentioned by several players in several threads. It'd be nice if Dice/EA actually listened and followed the example set by Desert Combat.

I also agree that the AT class should get at least a couple grenades. I don't know if grenades should be taken away from snipers though; they are already weak enough in medium and close range combat.
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|7163|Kirkland, WA

jonnykill wrote:

The Anti Tank unit should be able to kill a tank in 3 shots . I shot a damn tank with all 4 , didn't kille the tank - gay as hell .
I've seen video of the AT weapon in use, and in real life it only takes one hit to destory a tank and the splash damage is massive. They also have an incredible range. However, it is a game so it's understandable that they were nerfed slightly to make the game play more balanced, but I agree, the AT weapon should only take 3 hits to destroy a tank no matter where it contacts.


jonnykill wrote:

The 50.cal on the jeep should be able to kill a chopper if all the bullets hit the chopper before it overheats . Too many times have I hit the chopper with all 75 rounds ( just a guess ) and the chopper is smoking and I'm about to kill it and the gun overheats , the chopper turns and kills me . I'm sorry but if you shoot a chopper , ANY chopper in the world with 75 .50 cal bullets the chopper will fail , crash to the ground killing everyone aboard - it's simple as that . Also it would take roughly 700 rounds before an actual .50 would over heat to the point of barrle whiping and over heating - yeah I know it's just a game blah blah blah .
With the new patch you can take a full-health helicopter down with one continuous fire of a Humvee or Vodnik's .50 cal gun.

jonnykill wrote:

Make Karkand with an uncappable flag on the 32 player size map to end all the bitching and griping.
Personally, I don't think there should be any maps where one team doesn't have an uncappable base , but the other team does. This should be regardless of whether or not a team is playing defense or offense. Balance the ticket ratios instead.
Dr_3V|L
Member
+51|7167|Twente, The Netherlands
I've just watch my friend play a game at Warlord. He was fighting as SAS, attacking the 2nd floor palace outpost. Well... if I say CLAYMORE FEST, do you understand it then? Claymores everywhere. You couldnt move because of the claymores. Claymores around edges. Claymores near doors. Claymores in hallways. There is NO WAY to get to the 2nd floor without getting killed by a claymore. EA should think before adjusting the teamkill possibility of claymores.
Also, the PKM showed to be way overpowered. Same for the G3 and Ak-101. Come on, this game is unbalanced as hell.
The no sound bug on weapons and vehicles occured more than just one time...
To make a summary of this long post for the lazy readers:
This patch sucks bigtime, it's undeniable.

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