BF2S Forums What makes Karkand popular?

Sorry for the short answer, but I would say points (SPM) is the main factor. People like to see lots of points in a short amount of time playing.

Not looking at public noob gaming but on competitive gaming, the map is the best one designed by the DICE crew to play infantry.
Lots of cover, clear view, shoot angles, advancement to the next flag, map control, tactical jumps etc.

Its like playing chess on a low level. Or quake in 2D.

For those with good sound cards its pretty easy to rush the enemy at corners.

It is just the most playable infantry map. Sharqi is too dark and open and mashtuur is a bit too big at some places.

And we're off....on the wrong foot.  blacklupus is the only one that mentioned the map itself.  If you want to discuss SPM or whoring, at least tie it back to map features that promote the activity.  Tight passages, bottlenecks, etc.  Map *design* features are what I am interested in.

blacklupus wrote:

the map is the best one designed by the DICE crew to play infantry.

That pretty much sums it up. Most other maps do not place flags so close together let alone an uncap that close to a captureable one. I personally hate bottle necks because it leaves little room for strategy and promotes spam and total chaos. I know some may disagree with me but I/O was a horrible mistake that was patched in for noobs who couldn't deal with fighting vehicles. Karakand is so popular because majority of the BF2 players are noobs and the rest of us are stuck playing with them. For example I do not consider myself a pro or anything but I hate the map and yet my stats say it is my favorite

My favorites are:
Operation Harvest
Ghost Town
Great Wall
Leviathan
Daqing Oilfields
Warlord
Highway Tampa

Last edited by Evil_Black_Fox (2009-06-15 13:42:20)

El Beardo wrote:

Has to do something with early round nade spamming.....since it's happened every time I've ever played that map....EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME!

THEN STOP GOING RIGHT IN THE FRONT ENTRANCE!

It annoys the shit out of me when people do this:

*Spawn*
*Run down the hill*
*Die by grenade*
"GOD I HATE GRENADE SPAM!"
*Spawn*
*Run down the hill*
*Dies again*
"I CAN'T BELIEVE IT HAPPENED AGAIN!!!"

And repeat.

Know what I do? If I die going one way, I'll find another.

I NEVER go straight for the hotel flag at the start of a Karkand round. The only time I ever will is if I go round from the sides, I'll still never go directly  at it.

And I see 3/4 of the team doing the above stupidity every round.

Well, actually, now I think on it, cannon fodder's always good to have.

I do the same, which I think is one of the reasons Kark works well.  I typically try to slip by on the right side first.  If that is covered heavily, I will try the left side.  If thats covered, I try the hole in the fence on the left side and run to Square.  It works well because you are always near the action, but you have the possibility to slip by.  As opposed to a wide open map like Songhua, where you can drive in a 80 mile circle unhindered and cap a back flag.  At which point you start playing ring-around-the-rosie, moving to the next flag while the first flag is recaptured.

I am looking to get a broader understanding of the gameplay mechanics that go into a popular map, beyond my own understanding.

karkand is the funnest map in BF2 assuming nade spamming is not rampant. last time i played in that map i got team killed more than a dozen times.

Not having to run a marathon to find someone to kill, close flags.

Great panorama view from suburb

El Beardo wrote:

FFLink13 wrote:

El Beardo wrote:

Has to do something with early round nade spamming.....since it's happened every time I've ever played that map....EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME!

THEN STOP GOING RIGHT IN THE FRONT ENTRANCE!

So people can only throw grenades in the front entrance now? Must be a new feature.

Use dat fing in ur hed wat 4 finkin rite and u figur out wear da nades is landin and u avoid it ye. Dying a few itmes by nades is ok but I lol at people who constantly get killed by nades. Adapt please

I'd say karkand is popular because every flag is a unique battle, hotel, square, suburb, crossing the river, capping gatehouse, going in the warehouse, getting the idiots off of the factory and so on

Linearity is a factor too. It's just the right amount. It's not so linear you're forced to go for a particular flag but at the same time its not so open that people get lost and have no idea what to do

While I don't play much Karkand these days, I do think it is one of the best designed maps. Mainly for the reasons identified by the OP. Obviously urban maps with no aircraft are always going to be popular because they are just easier to learn to play, and offer plenty of intense action without too much waiting around.

Good things about Karkand - it's fairly flat, with clean firing angles. This leads to some good firefights.
-There is plenty of cover, which leads to plenty of reviving. You get shot, you buddy can save you without necessarily having to rush out and get killed himself. Which, like it or not, makes for more fun for most casual players because they are likely to get a positive k/d, especially on IO.
-You can employ a wide range of weapons effectively because you can fight close quarters in the alleys or shoot down long streets if you prefer.
-There is a good variety in the areas you can fight in. The East side of the map is very different to the west. Fighting in the warehouse can be a lot of fun and is very different to, say, a battle between the train accident and the square, or the square and the hotel. Then there is the standoff that can occur at the bridge. Some people hate it, but it can be interesting trying to break the standoff.

I'd say Karkand has about the happiest balance when it comes to flag proximity and density of chokepoints. In comparison, further to the open, exposed end of the scale we have Mashtuur and further to the closed up, dense end of the scale we have Sharqui. Relative to karkand, on Mashtuur you can find yourself a little exposed with no cover and on Sharqui the combat can be at close quarters all the time which leads to chaotic situations that you have less control over. Karkand is in the middle. Jalalabad is a little tank-heavy for some people's tastes, plus the MEC are at a pretty major disadvantage (I personally love that map). I think Blue Pearl is going to be very popular when 1.5 comes out.

Other reasons why a lot of people have Karkand as their most played map, even when it's not their favourite, are:(1) it is always possible to find a server. I might want to play Leviathan (a map which, incidentally, is a lot like Karkand at night) at 3am, but not many other people do. It's nearly always possible to find a server with Karkand or Warlord or Ghost Town at any time of the day or night, even if we would rather play another map. (2) Rounds on Karkand last a long time because ticket bleed is low on that map. If the USMC capture a single flag there is no ticket bleed and this usually lasts the entire round. Hence the round lasts a very long time and we all clock up a lot of Karkand hours.

Evil_Black_Fox wrote:

It doesn't matter where you go on I/O Kark. Unless you have an entire squad of medics you will die before you get to any flags. Down the middle you will get nade spammed, if you make it past all of that you will be killed by a claymore. Moving accros the hills you will have countless other players blocking your path. Trying to go along side the wall is just asking to be sniped. Its I/O + Kark + 64 players = FAIL.  Nothing but quick points, rarely do flags get taken, and the same trash gameplay just repeats itself over and over.

You forgot to mention the "assault snipers" that drop claymores in front of your feet as soon as you come down the hill.