Sud
Member
+0|7019
I'd like to suggest a "competancy" system put in play for vehicles. Vehicles can make or break an offense/defense, especially on maps such as Mashtuur city where the driver of the tank can literally dictate the game, or if an incompetant takes it, lose the game for his team. This system would be similar to how rank determines who gets to command, but much more complex and observant of skill. Each player in a game should have a competancy rating that is a long integer "point based score" which is derived from several things. Taking the Mashtuur tank as a for example, the first statistic that should be considered is Kills to Deaths in an armored vehicle. Kills count as points, deaths count as negative points. This is so that someone can't have a higher score by simply attrition - 1600 kills 1200 deaths should not take priority over, say, 600 kills 50 deaths. Second thing that should be analyzed is kills per minute while in an armored vehicle, and a bonus given for a high KPM, and perhaps a demerit for extremely low KPMs. Third thing to consider is class. A player who is an Engineer at that moment should get, say, a 1.3x bonus to his points because an engineer is much more likely to be able to keep his vehicle in shape and avoid unnecessary losses. Medic and support, who also have special abilities in vehicles, should receive, say, a 1.1x bonus, just to establish themselves as slightly more useful. Medics in particular make wonderful tank top gunners because of their ability to heal themselves when they take damage. Fourth thing to consider is squad. Players in a squad which have a squadmember in a vehicle should receive a bonus to their competancy check to reflect the greater organization between the squadmates, and the fact that a squadmate gunning in a vehicle can respawn directly in the vehicle to resume his duties when he dies (something extremely valuable when you are gunning for a tank, and providing him protection from C4).

Under the competancy system, the team vehicle resources would be allocated to those best suited to using them - people who want to build their competancy can find servers running maps where there are more vehicle resources or less competition for those resources to practice on, or can build it gunning for the various vehicles (if not competant enough vs a teammate to drive them). Under the competancy system, a more competant player could boot a less competant player out of a vehicle at any time he wished to take over the vehicle. Booting someone out and not using the vehicle, of course, would be punishable by negative points (there should be a requirement that you earn an X amount of quota in a vehicle if you boot someone out).

One of the big benefits of this would be the elimination of people camping helipads or other vehicle spawns because they would not be able to rely on the hope that they can steal the vehicle for themselves - they would always be deferred out of the vehicle by the player with the higher competancy cheeck. If they want a vehicle, they must first prove they are competant to use it by building up their competancy by practicing with vehicles.
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7018|The United Center
no.

how are people supposed to get any better if they cant practice?  its bad enough when youre waiting for a vehicle to spawn and someone else takes it, but itd be even worse if you get that vehicle, drive it to the front lines, just to get booted out.

what i would agree with is perhaps armor, helicopter, and aviator rankings shown ingame...so you can see who the skilled pilots and drivers are and maybe give them priority.
Sud
Member
+0|7019
Please take the time to read the post before responding. The issue of where to practice is acknowledged and responded to in the post.

Unfortunately the statistic idea is interesting, but we both know that people get a sense of entitlement when it comes to vehicles, and will not relent it. A person that relents a vehicle to a better player is as rare as someone who forgives a teamkill. It's like, rare as chicken's teeth.

The benefits of keeping people from wasting team resources and keeping them off the helipad and in the game far outweigh the "detriment" (which I also view as a benefit) that people have to practice their armor or aviator in servers where those resources are not as in demand. You can easily forego a few 64/64 player Karkand games to practice your APC in a 36/50 Songhua game. Practice makes better players, and I would rather have someone who has practiced a bit and proven themselves in a vehicle over lieutenant private dumbass hunting for some C4.

but itd be even worse if you get that vehicle, drive it to the front lines, just to get booted out.
You make an interesting point actually here. What I think would be the best counter to this is perhaps actually reimbursing the person who drove the vehicle out there with points that would go toward their competancy rating. Also, it could be worthwhile to make repair points apply towards competancy rating as well, as you can learn a thing or two by watching the tactics employed by the better drivers, and repairing them would be beneficial to them and you for the future.

Last edited by Sud (2005-11-21 11:08:07)

=DS=Unit92
Member
+0|7013
I like the idea with one minute amendment. I think that if a player has managed to keep a vehicle for say 5-10 minutes they cannot be bumped this is also considering if they are withing a certain proximity to the tank (say while repairing it.)
Turtle
Member
+7|7029|Boulder, CO
Interesting idea, but how would you get points towards competency if you JUST started. You may be an excellent tank commander but someone else gets to use it because he has more kills or a better k/d ratio than you even tho said person may not be as good as you.

P.S. If you need to practice with a vehicle, any vehicle... play on an unranked server for the love of god. Nothing better than filling up a blackhawk only to have it crash 10 feet from the helipad and kill everyone.
Sud
Member
+0|7019
one thing to keep in mind is that we want to prevent the type of abuse that is going on right now with people camping helipads. If someone got, say, a chopper or vehicle they wanted, they could possibly go hang out off the map somewhere for 5 minutes to lock themselves in.

Also, getting out to repair shouldn't matter, as if someone jumped in your spot, you could just toss them out again. As it is, I have to fear getting out of a vehicle to repair it because people make a beeline for it to try to steal it. With competancy, that risk would be removed, and being an engineer would actually make it harder for someone like an assault to take the tank while I repair because I would have the 1.3x point factor for being an eng
Sud
Member
+0|7019
but how would you get points towards competency if you JUST started. You may be an excellent tank commander but someone else gets to use it because he has more kills or a better k/d ratio than you even tho said person may not be as good as you.
That would be map situational. Normally on maps like songhua, there are enough APCs for everyone. Perhaps an idea might even be to allow a certain percentage of points from, say, transport vehicles to apply (though they are a completely different class of vehicle with a much higher deathrate so it would have to be limited to a minor tip of the hat)

You could also get points redeemable toward your competancy by repairing friendly vehicles or transporting vehicles to the front lines for people (or yourself if nobody else wants to use it).
=DS=Unit92
Member
+0|7013

Sud wrote:

one thing to keep in mind is that we want to prevent the type of abuse that is going on right now with people camping helipads. If someone got, say, a chopper or vehicle they wanted, they could possibly go hang out off the map somewhere for 5 minutes to lock themselves in.
True but do you think that the type of people are really going to take themselves out of the action for 5-10 minutes just so they can keep their tank for the couple minutes they spend getting it blown up just to do it over again. The type of people that get into these cycles do it because they suck but they want to be "in the action" right away. And I don't think Choppers should be limited by time because it's impossible to bump someone from the ground.
Sud
Member
+0|7019
Choppers would likely have to have some sort of special command or proximity "swap" effect to bump.

You are right about most people just wanting to charge a tank into the enemy fray and hope they can get 1-2 kills with it before they get rocket and c4 spammed. The best idea to stop people from trying to drive the tank or other vehicle off the map somewhere would probably be to boot them out before the 5 minutes. If after, say, 3 minutes, the tank doesn't see any points earned in action, you're tossed out of it. This may need to be modified for the bigger maps like Daqing or Dalian because of the travel time it can take to get from one of the back bases to the front.

Last edited by Sud (2005-11-21 11:33:24)

blacksheepcannibal
Member
+24|7023
id say just use K ratio. if your K ratio is higher than the person in the tank, then you boot them out and enter. of course, if your in a tank for longer than 5 minutes, your "locked in" regardless.
Dirrty_Bird
Dirtier than thou
+5|7012|Vermont
waaaaa waaaaaa.  I'm an armor whore and I hate when n00bs steal my tank.  Gimme a friggin break.  This is a bad idea that would turn a lot of people away from the game.
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7034

I like your ideas Sud, kinda moving foward on letting people be more specialized in a certain vehicle/kit. Just a couple of things to add:

1. The 5-mins and you're locked in idea could be exploited and might get annoying. It would also suck to get in a tank, drive all the way out to battle, and have someone take your tank cause they are supposedly better. Maybe they have a slightly higher score, but that doesn't mean that I suck at tanks. So it could work like applying for commander, it's not based on points but rather on rank, preset levels that make you equal to others. Then after that you can do a first come first serve basis. Unless someone with a different rank (not points) comes and tankes it away, I am locked in.

2. People seem to be freaking out about not being able to practice. This is true of popular servers, and this is EXACTLY why this system is needed. We don't want you practicing where others are trying to build up their stats etc. Find a less busy server, find bigger maps, try things out in unranked servers. It's not that big a deal, just that people want to practice on popular servers.

Alright, that's it, cool ideas flowing here.
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7034

blacksheepcannibal wrote:

id say just use K ratio. if your K ratio is higher than the person in the tank, then you boot them out and enter. of course, if your in a tank for longer than 5 minutes, your "locked in" regardless.
What the heck is a K-HappyFace ratio?
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7109
I wont go near a plane in a game. I just scuk at it so bad. I am better than most in Gunship vs Gunship But tend to get buck fever when I see Armor.
Sud
Member
+0|7019
waaaaa waaaaaa.  I'm an armor whore and I hate when n00bs steal my tank.  Gimme a friggin break.  This is a bad idea that would turn a lot of people away from the game.
Checklist:

- Does the name of the poster contain random words stuck together and/or ALL or AlTeRnAtInG caps and/or numbers in the name? "BiRdMaN829" Check.

- Does the poster have a negative ratio overall with almost everything he lays his hands on being negative ratio? Check.

- Does the poster make liberal use of cliches up in coming to his nonsensical point, but not before quoting off something as fact that is completely his own speculation? Check.

Congratulations, you lose at life BiRdMaN829.

1. The 5-mins and you're locked in idea could be exploited and might get annoying. It would also suck to get in a tank, drive all the way out to battle, and have someone take your tank cause they are supposedly better. Maybe they have a slightly higher score, but that doesn't mean that I suck at tanks. So it could work like applying for commander, it's not based on points but rather on rank, preset levels that make you equal to others. Then after that you can do a first come first serve basis. Unless someone with a different rank (not points) comes and tankes it away, I am locked in.
If you went Engineer, and have a good competancy rating, the likelihood that you would be kicked out would be low. Very few people play foot engineer, after all, for obvious reasons. The problem with pulling rank is that rank carries no reflection of skill or ability with it. It simply says "I've been here for a lot of hours". The flaw with rank based polling is that almost anytime I poll for commander, a higher ranked, but inferior commander gets the position. Or as I like to say instead of "A higher ranking player has taken the position of commander", "A bigger newb has taken the position of commander".

2. People seem to be freaking out about not being able to practice. This is true of popular servers, and this is EXACTLY why this system is needed. We don't want you practicing where others are trying to build up their stats etc. Find a less busy server, find bigger maps, try things out in unranked servers. It's not that big a deal, just that people want to practice on popular servers.
Precisely what I'm getting at. In servers that are fiercely competitive, unqualified people getting into valuable team resources ruins the competition and disrupts the entire game. Suddenly, the vehicle support you direly needed at the front is somewhere falling off a bridge, climbing mountains trying to run over a sniper, or looking for a nice teammate mine to roll over. The entire game's momentum swings against you, and by that act you lose. There would be plenty of places to practice, and I'm sure a lot of opportunities to use vehicles that nobody wants to use, or at least help toward repairing and maintaining the vehicles as a method of raising competancy.

Last edited by Sud (2005-11-21 13:38:17)

GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7034

Sud wrote:

If you went Engineer, and have a good competancy rating, the likelihood that you would be kicked out would be low. Very few people play foot engineer, after all, for obvious reasons. The problem with pulling rank is that rank carries no reflection of skill or ability with it. It simply says "I've been here for a lot of hours". The flaw with rank based polling is that almost anytime I poll for commander, a higher ranked, but inferior commander gets the position. Or as I like to say instead of "A higher ranking player has taken the position of commander", "A bigger newb has taken the position of commander".
Yea, I know what you mean with the rank thing. The only true thing it reflects is your SPM * Time you've played. Doesn't mean you're a better commander, just may have more experience etc.

I guess I used the wrong terms though, because what I really meant is that there should be tiers of skill. Let's say you rank tank skill 1-100. Tier 1 could be beginners, 1-25. Tier 2 intermediates, like 26-50. Tier 3 advanced, 51-75. Finally experts up top, 76-100. (I'm just making an example, numbers can vary, make more tiers, etc). This way, you can't be bumped by someone in your same tier, thus giving you a chance to command a tank. Maybe I have skill 60, and the other guy has skill 70. There's little difference, maybe 1-2 more kills during that run? If I got moved for him I'd be a little pissed. However, if Mr. Tanxor comes with skill 90 thus a higher tier, and takes my tank, I can understand better.

Problem with the game right now is that everyone wants to have all the medals, badges, drive all the vehicles, cap all the flags, have all the unlocks, etc. It'd be nice to be able to specialize more in a certain area, and grow in that field as time passes. This way, we could have people that are really good in their area and thus eliminate some of the noobness that pisses us off.

Edit: Oh yea, and the engineer x1.3 thing is a great plan. It could influence your tank rank (lol) enough to put you in a different tier, thus giving you priority over the tank. Or, even better, you automatically get the tank even if the current driver is in the same tier.

Last edited by GotMex? (2005-11-21 15:21:11)

Dirrty_Bird
Dirtier than thou
+5|7012|Vermont

Sud wrote:

- Does the name of the poster contain random words stuck together and/or ALL or AlTeRnAtInG caps and/or numbers in the name? "BiRdMaN829" Check.

- Does the poster have a negative ratio overall with almost everything he lays his hands on being negative ratio? Check.

- Does the poster make liberal use of cliches up in coming to his nonsensical point, but not before quoting off something as fact that is completely his own speculation? Check.

Congratulations, you lose at life BiRdMaN829.
Wow.  I'm hurt.  First of all, my user name is irrelevant (and if you're wondering, it is not random. my last name is Bird so Birdman is what most of my friends call me).  Numbers in the name?  A lot of people have numbers in the name.  Excuse me for not being the first person to choose "Birdman" as a nickname.  On a side note, I notice your in-game name (5ud) has a number that is actually used as a letter you lousy hypocrite

Yes I do have a negative ratio.  I'm not proud of it, but it has never stopped me from having fun.  I have been steadily improving it, but that isn't the most important thing to me when I play.  Oh well.  Also, a quick look has told me that your own k/d with small arms is only .66 (considerably lower than my .81).  Those in glass houses....(note intentionally ironic use of a cliche)

I don't really see where I used cliches.  I usually define a cliche as something like "if the hat fits, wear it" or "those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" or some other trite expression.  I'm not really quoting anything as fact, but I am speculating that a lot of armor whores would latch on to this suggestion.  The post is made under my name so naturally contains my opinion.

Last edited by BiRdMaN829 (2005-11-21 18:06:00)

the_ubernoob_
Member
+8|7015
???Wait how is this plan supposed to work???
lets say im a new player to bf2.
I use a tank and have a bad round (literally everyone on the other team is anti-tank).
Now my score would be way in the negatives because of the one round.
I go and improve my skill in unranked servers and get awesome.
Go back into a ranked server, start driving a tank and get booted out by some "tank-whore" well before I can score any points to bring up my score.


In my opinion this looks like something that would spawn a new breed of UBER-TANK-WHORES who are rewarded for siting infront of some base blindly fireing tank shells at the spawn zones with the ability to kick players out of vehicles that actually engage the enemy and their vehicles.  Vehicles should not be handed over to players who only know how to get kills with vehicles.  Learn how to fight on foot for crying out loud. 

You can't just expect the tanks to be given to you cause you have hoarded the tank for thousands of hours and racked up an insanely high number of "you can't use my tank points".  Let someone new use the tank, hitch a ride, hope in the turret, or just vehicle surf on the side. 
This point system would severly favor players who have like less than 50 kills outside of a vehicle.
the_ubernoob_
Member
+8|7015
Hey bird don't know if you noticed but he has only like 40 kills outside of a vehicle.
Dirrty_Bird
Dirtier than thou
+5|7012|Vermont

the_ubernoob_ wrote:

Hey bird don't know if you noticed but he has only like 40 kills outside of a vehicle.
Yeah I did, that's why I said he's a tank whore.
Sud
Member
+0|7019
(and if you're wondering, it is not random. my last name is Bird so Birdman is what most of my friends call me)
Birdbrain also works

I notice your in-game name (5ud) has a number that is actually used as a letter you lousy hypocrite
Yeah, some dork would have to come on and steal my alias that I've been using almost as long as the birth of the Internet (as claimed to be fathered by old Al Gore), but alas I unfortunately cannot claim exclusivity in every game, so I had to settle for that. At least, the number serves the closest purpose that I could get, rather than creating an effect akin to SuPaRSaIyAnBoY1121012. Unfortunately EA disapproves of any kind of spacing, punctuation, or other methods of getting your name across, so had to settle for the next best thing.

the_ubernoob_ wrote:

    Hey bird don't know if you noticed but he has only like 40 kills outside of a vehicle.

Yeah I did, that's why I said he's a tank whore.
Actually, I have a screw around account that I decided to med with under the name of DoctrKevorkian, and even yet, it can pull a positive ratio. If tank whoring even existed, of course, I might be insulted. But instead you can sit there and revel in the fact that my non serious account as a medic primarily healing and reviving can still bust out enough performance with a gun on foot to not be a ticket liability, unlike either of YOU two.
Dirrty_Bird
Dirtier than thou
+5|7012|Vermont

Sud wrote:

(and if you're wondering, it is not random. my last name is Bird so Birdman is what most of my friends call me)
Birdbrain also works

I notice your in-game name (5ud) has a number that is actually used as a letter you lousy hypocrite
Yeah, some dork would have to come on and steal my alias that I've been using almost as long as the birth of the Internet (as claimed to be fathered by old Al Gore), but alas I unfortunately cannot claim exclusivity in every game, so I had to settle for that. At least, the number serves the closest purpose that I could get, rather than creating an effect akin to SuPaRSaIyAnBoY1121012. Unfortunately EA disapproves of any kind of spacing, punctuation, or other methods of getting your name across, so had to settle for the next best thing.
Bird brain might work.  But that is not my nickname.  Oh well.  And you just gave the same exact reason for your name that I did, your first chice was taken.  I use the same name on every forum I am a member of, Yahoo, MSN Messenger, Gmail, etc. etc.  I originally responded to your suggestion saying that I didn't think it would work.  We have now started to make fun of user names.  In an effort to stop the senseless flaming of which we are both guilty, I will attempt to clarify my critique of your idea:  While it may be annoying to have a person in a vehicle who has no idea what they are doing, it is possible to do something else.  The game is based on being able to do whatever you want, hence it take only 1 person to operate a tank whereas in real likfe it takes 5, and so people should have the freedom to hop in whichever vehcle they choose.
=DS=Unit92
Member
+0|7013
It's funny how the people with positive ratios always favour these ideas while the ones with negative ratios immediatly get all up in arms about having to learn a little skill.


While it may be annoying to have a person in a vehicle who has no idea what they are doing, it is possible to do something else.  The game is based on being able to do whatever you want, hence it take only 1 person to operate a tank whereas in real likfe it takes 5, and so people should have the freedom to hop in whichever vehcle they choose.
While it may be fun to grab a tank kill two people then die and repeat the process over ad neaseum it is possible for newbies to do something else that might actually help the team rather than being a ticket liablility and wasting valuable resources. Especially in maps where armour can be the defining factor that wins or loses the match.

Last edited by =DS=Unit92 (2005-11-22 06:14:24)

Sud
Member
+0|7019
You didn't "respond" to the idea.

You started "WAAH WAAAAHING" in response to try to make yourself look cool. It didn't work.
SMKpaladin
Member
+0|7013|Germany
You still know, that Battlefield 2 is game, only intended to bring you and others fun and make your time a pleasent one. So you suggest me and every one else on this whole planet to proof that I/we  am/are competant to have fun? You should look up the words "fun" and "game" in your dictionary and then reconsider your whole thing.
I think your problem is that you think, you are the better pilot/driver, maybe you have been shot a couple of times lately? If you want a competancy system, why not just join your country's army?

AND having the best KDR does NOT in any case mean that you are good teamwork player, Battlefield 2 is a teambased FPS game, so someone just mowing down everything that moves instead of helping defend a flag or taking one isn't the better player, at least not in BF2, and thus NOT the more competant driver.

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