Dizazter
Crazy has a mind of its own
+0|7091
There should be manditory training and qualification in order to use certain vehicle types, like attack choppers, airplanes, tanks, and transport choppers (Maybe AA tanks and Wheeled transport also). It would be a single player type mission that would be fairly challenging. And it would take you through the nessisary skills needed to pilot these vehicles.  It would have 3 parts, first a training that you would basically just watch. An untimed familiarization run where you can pilot the vehicle as long as you want in a somewhat low threat senario. A brief qualification mission with objectives (like repair the chopper, fly to point B and pick up passengers, drop off passengers at point C, return to base, etc).

This way I think you would have more assurance that the person you jump in the vehicle with isnt going to crash it in 10 seconds or do something simliarly stupid. You'd get a nifty little badge for completing these trainings which would make newbs feel all special, and more likely to do the training.
dsb
Member
+0|7049
Like the commander thing, I like the idea, but have my doubts about the practicality in this game.  It seems like something that would have to be implemented from the get-go.
JeSTeR_Player1
Flying Solo
+98|7042|Canada, Ont
Everyones a Newbie at some Point...Its not like the people who Piss you Off For Sucking Will Suck Forever. Its Possible But Not Likely.

I remember the First Time I Decided to Fly Chopper...was Online, My Bad...lol

I Took off and Went Straight Back and Killed 2 of my Passangers...I got Bitched out.

Now I Fly Very Well. So, Your Idea is Good but its 100% Unnecassery
DrtyWhytBoi
Member
+0|7036
I agree, this would be a great feature.  In addition, the ranking system could be improved to distinguish better between wanna-be's and qualified personel.  In the real world a Corporal would NOT be flying a helicopter, much less a jet.  A tank commander would not be an enlisted man.  I see that the latest patch added the 2nd Lt. to the mix of ranks.  In reality 2nd LT. is nothing more than a commissioned Private.  Officer Ranks start at 2nd LT, 1st LT, Captain, Major, LT Colonel, Colonel, General (1,2,3,4,5 star).  Then there are Warrant Officers...Enlisted men who worked up to Officer Ranks. There could be two paths in the game, where a player trains to be an officer rank, which allows for Commander Role, Helicopter pilot, Jet Pilot, and other complex jobs with responsibility.  The other path would let players train to use Anti-Air, APC, Tanks, Hummer, boats, etc.

BF2 is a significant improvement over BF1942, and BFV, Yet there is still much than can be added and included.  Imagination is a wonderful thing, and if you can think it, someone somewhere can make it real!
mdThanatos
Member
+0|7036
It would be a good feature if it was optional, I do agree howeever that it really gets on my nerves when someone who can't fly gets in a plane or a chopper and screws it up hurting teammates.  If it were an option, I think that it would be better than manditory.  As far as the path options, its not a bad idea, just want to point out alot of chopper pilots I have encountered were in fact Warrants, so I dunno how that would fit in with your path idea, if the chopper pilot is in the path of the commissioned officers.  If the ranks were to be implemented and the two path idea to be put in the game, I could see the chopper pilot thing be availible for CW3-CW5.  It is sort of limiting, but it would ensure for a solid team if each person were trained in a specific profession.
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|7115|Bryan/College Station, TX
Battlefield 2 Combat is a pay tournament team style deal. They have enforced ranking systems, squad tactics and yes they also have qualifications for vehicles and even some kits. If you want the ultimate team play and professional game play this is the way to go. Yes you have to be able to play on 64 player maps with your computer specs and yes it will cost you money. But right now if I had a computer that could play 64 without lag.. I would pay for it. Public servers are starting to really grate on my nerves.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Tigg@lot
noob on tour
+1|7045|NRW,Germany
I would highly appreciate an offline training mode where you can learn some things like effective bombing runs or using tv guided missiles without crashing myself online to be emberassed in front of everyone else.

I tried to train on an empty server but as long as nobody tells me where my bombs dropp I can´t tell if I´m dropping them too early or too late.
Dizazter
Crazy has a mind of its own
+0|7091

Tigg@lot wrote:

I would highly appreciate an offline training mode where you can learn some things like effective bombing runs or using tv guided missiles without crashing myself online to be emberassed in front of everyone else.

I tried to train on an empty server but as long as nobody tells me where my bombs dropp I can´t tell if I´m dropping them too early or too late.
Yeah thats what I'm talking about, like not just a newbie trainer, but actually teach you some of the finer points like those things. Its real hard to find someone patient enough to hover a helocopter for you for 20 minutes while you practice TV missiles.
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|7043|Atlanta, GA USA
Tigg@lot: Yeah that would be cool, but EA would never do it because it would take too much time to implement.
Tigg@lot
noob on tour
+1|7045|NRW,Germany

atlvolunteer wrote:

Tigg@lot: Yeah that would be cool, but EA would never do it because it would take too much time to implement.
Sad, but most certainly true.
Dizazter
Crazy has a mind of its own
+0|7091

Tigg@lot wrote:

atlvolunteer wrote:

Tigg@lot: Yeah that would be cool, but EA would never do it because it would take too much time to implement.
Sad, but most certainly true.
Yeah all these ideas are pretty much hypothetical for fun.
Possibly more for an elaborate expansion or BF3.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7108
Who Are you Hillary Clinton ? how about a 7 day Cooling off period before you play ?
Psycho
Member since 2005
+44|7048|Kansas, USA

DrtyWhytBoi wrote:

In reality 2nd LT. is nothing more than a commissioned Private.  Officer Ranks start at 2nd LT, 1st LT, Captain, Major, LT Colonel, Colonel, General (1,2,3,4,5 star).  Then there are Warrant Officers...Enlisted men who worked up to Officer Ranks.
Where are you getting your information from? A 2nd Lt. may be the lowest ranking officer, but it is far from a comissioned private. The Sgt. Major of the Army/Corps (the highest ranking elisted ranks) have to salute/take orders from a 2nd Lt (although I'd love to see a 2nd Lt. try). Warrant Officers are NOT enlisted soldiers who worked up to officer ranks. When someone joins the military they are either enlisted, warrant officer, or comissioned officer. Enlisted can apply to become a WO or Comissioned Officer (e.g. Officer Candidate School), but there is no "path" to do so. WO's could also become an officer in the same manner, but the WO path does not eventually lead to an officer rank, there are just different WO levels.
Sgt.Gh0st
Pump-Action Pimp
+16|7054|The Hague, Holland
I geuss everybody will have to learn the same way I (and probably you to) learned it. By playing online.
My friend refused to go on multyplayer because he thought he whas a newb and wanted to practise sniping on singleplayer. How can you compare singleplayer bots and real time players? All the learning will be done online.
DrDestruction
Utilityman
+1|7049
Which is where it should be, in a game like this.  This game is based around multiplayer gaming - a method that is rapidly becoming commonplace (Multiplayer first, singleplayer second).

If you had training modes, boot camp, all that stuff, you would have everyone coming online and being "experts" at the game.  This would give the newer player, one that can't do the training for whatever reason or one that just wants to play online, almost no chance at anything.  It's the difference between going to school and learning things as your life happens - school can only teach you so much, but its the life experience from interacting with people that makes all the difference.  Without training, you get a much more diverse playing field that, when a really good player comes on, allows people to see it and say "Hey, that guy is really good".  Imagine what the game would be like if EVERYONE had scores of 80+ each round.  There would be promotions left and right and it would make the ranking system totally worthless.

I think it's fine how it is.  It allows for more improvisation, too - Im sure that any EA Games sanctioned training mode wouldn't include so much as a footnote about Jihad Jeeping, pixel shooting with TOW's (Shooting a TOW at a target you cannot see), or dropping supplies on your own commander assets, to name a few "improvised" methods of things that BF2 players have come up with.

Being forced to learn things on your own means that there is a wide range of different methods to complete each task, based on each person's abilities, mindsets, etc.  I think the game is much more fun that way.
Dizazter
Crazy has a mind of its own
+0|7091

DrDestruction wrote:

Which is where it should be, in a game like this.  This game is based around multiplayer gaming - a method that is rapidly becoming commonplace (Multiplayer first, singleplayer second).

If you had training modes, boot camp, all that stuff, you would have everyone coming online and being "experts" at the game.  This would give the newer player, one that can't do the training for whatever reason or one that just wants to play online, almost no chance at anything.  It's the difference between going to school and learning things as your life happens - school can only teach you so much, but its the life experience from interacting with people that makes all the difference.  Without training, you get a much more diverse playing field that, when a really good player comes on, allows people to see it and say "Hey, that guy is really good".  Imagine what the game would be like if EVERYONE had scores of 80+ each round.  There would be promotions left and right and it would make the ranking system totally worthless.

I think it's fine how it is.  It allows for more improvisation, too - Im sure that any EA Games sanctioned training mode wouldn't include so much as a footnote about Jihad Jeeping, pixel shooting with TOW's (Shooting a TOW at a target you cannot see), or dropping supplies on your own commander assets, to name a few "improvised" methods of things that BF2 players have come up with.

Being forced to learn things on your own means that there is a wide range of different methods to complete each task, based on each person's abilities, mindsets, etc.  I think the game is much more fun that way.
I have to disagree with you on about every point here. First, I dont think offline training would turn everyone into instant experts by a long stretch. Additionally its pretty impossible for everyone in a game to get 80+ points. This would require an extremely long game, or one where no one gets any kills, and the teams just trade bases back and forth.

Learning new things online can be extremely difficult, especially if you dont have experienced friends already playing the game. Imagine how hard it could be for a newbie to learn the subtleties of a chopper, when there are some very talented players on AA vehicles blowing him out of the air before he gets 20 seconds of flight time.

Yes there are improvisational things players pick up, and I would not expect a training mode to provide you with those thing. I do suppose someone could set up a single player mission, and set the difficulty to easy, and they should be able to learn stuff. But many new players wouldnt even think of doing that.

Reminds me too much of job senarios, when management thinks, why both training, they can just train on the floor as they go, massive disasters ensue....
DrDestruction
Utilityman
+1|7049
Except this isn't job training - there is a huge difference.  With job training, you usually deal with mature adults (do not respond to this with sarcasm, I know the possibilities) and if the floor-training doesn't go well, there is usually something to fault other than the fact floor training took place.

In BF2 by contrast, you are dealing with a large <18 audience, and because of that, you are dealing with alot of kids.  While I agree that a level of "basic" training could make the game more enjoyable, I think that learning from experience makes a player learn much quicker and know how to react to certain situations rather than shooting at a fake target and getting nothing out of it.

For me, I played single player first to get a feel for the game, then I moved on to multiplayer and learned from there.  I wouldn't have it any other way, because I came up with my own tactics that served me well, rather than listen to cut and dry tactics that a basic tutorial would give you.  I also learned how to maturely deal with situations online - everything from being killed to how people expected me to react when _____ situation occurred (example - shoot the killer before reviving a teammate, etc., you get the point).  This stuff I learned online and picked up much quicker because people would be angry with me if I didnt - I simply could not have done that with the basic training you speak of.
iUDEX_nCr
Member
+0|7044|North Melbourne, Australia
Regardless of age, I think the training is a fantastic idea!

Like helicopter gunner training, where you don't have to worry about the pilot... or enemies shooting you down.  Or bombing runs.

Just because they are 'kids' does not mean they will not gain as much as an 'adult' from training.  On the contrary, I think they'd gain more... because kids these days grow up with computer games, and unfortunately you can never beat a 14-16 yo, because they have so much time on their hand to practice.


DrDestruction: Learning because people get angry at you is a really cruddy way to learn. However, there are some things that can only be learned online... e.g. clear out before reviving.  Also, um... perhaps you should get out more if you learned how to deal with people from playing online... ;P kidding man, but yeah I think the tutorial isn't about cut and dry tactics, but rather a way to understand how the game mechanics work.  E.g. bullet drop, aiming, movement, how vehicles behave ... just if I did these in a situation where Icould take risks and try different things without compromising my team (or my ego) I'd learn faster.  Like how EXACTLY do TV guided missile behave when a chopper is strafing, if target is turning etc. Be nice... but I think a good place is to find a bunch of mates, on an empty server.

I do that. That way you can try all the unlocks, how they perform... effective ranges, and so on.  These things you cannot do in an actual game.

um... ranting... need sleep...
Scorpian65
Member
+14|7009
I like the idea. Nothing pisses me off more then my team getting raped because the same noob gets the plane/chopper/tank every time it spawns and then promptly dies only to get it again before someone who knows how to use them can get in it.
Sud
Member
+0|7019
Same, thus why I have the huge topic open in this forum on the exact same thing

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